Space & Astronomy/Space and Astronomy (October 1993).iso/mac/TEXT/SPACEDIG/V15_0/V15NO021.TXT

Internet Message Format | 1993-07-13 | 30KB

Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 05:00:05
From: Space Digest maintainer <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Subject: Space Digest V15 #021
To: Space Digest Readers
Precedence: bulk


Space Digest                Wed, 22 Jul 92       Volume 15 : Issue 021

Today's Topics:
                      ASTRONOMY LAB BETA TESTER
   Astronomy Lab for MS Windows 3.X - BETA TESTERS NEEDED (2 msgs)
                     does anyone know??? (2 msgs)
                       Facility Tours (3 msgs)
      Galileo found intelligent life? (was Re: Whale killing ..)
                      Galileo Update - 07/20/92
                      Looking gif horse in mouth
                        Muon-catalyzed fusion
            Need Testers for MS Windows Astronomy Program
   No markets in space? (was Re: Chemical unit operations in space)
            Phobos2-probe UFO pic-pro and contra (2 msgs)
          Testers for Astronomy  Lab:  NEW E-MAIL ADDRESS!!!
                         U.S. Black Programs
         Whale killing for "science" -- so for what? (2 msgs)

    Welcome to the Space Digest!!  Please send your messages to
    "[e-mail]".  Please do **NOT** send (un)subscription
    requests to that address!  Instead, send a message of the form
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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 14:10 CET
From: "Truffa Giancarlo,Agrate B.,Italy * 39-39-6035.815" <[e-mail]>
Subject: ASTRONOMY LAB BETA TESTER

I WOULD BE BETA TESTER OF ASTRONOMY LAB PROGRAM.
I WASN'T ABLE TO USE DIRECTLY BOTH ADDRESSES.
MY INFORMATIONS ARE:

Name:    GIANCARLO TRUFFA
US Mail Address: NONE
MAIL Address: via Rombon,29/ 20134 MILAN/ITALY
E-Mail Address: [e-mail]
Version of MS-Windows: 3.1
Version of MS-DOS: 5.0
CPU: 80386 SX
Math Coprocessor (not required): 80387
Memory: 4 MB
Graphics Card: SVGA TSENG 4000
Printer: EPSON LX800

THANK'S

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 14:06:03 GMT
From: Marcell Stoer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Astronomy Lab for MS Windows 3.X - BETA TESTERS NEEDED
Newsgroups: comp.windows.ms,comp.ibm.pc.misc,sci.astro,sci.space,sci.edu,comp.windows.ms.programmer,comp.binaries.ibm.pc.d

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Tom Fisher) writes:
>
> Sorry, I know that I shouldn't post this, but the mail bounced when I
> tried to e-mail to you.

I had the same problem.  Finger says all is OK, but the daemon sends my
mail back.  Please sign me up as well.

My info :
[e-mail]
Windows 3.0
Dos 4.0
25 MHz 386
8M RAM
ATI VGA 256K
120M Harddrive
Roland PR2417, HP LaserJet III running PCL
and an 80387

--
Marcell Stoer                                Internet : [e-mail]
Department of Chemistry
Molecular Beam Laser Spectrometry Laboratory    Voice : [phone]
University of Victoria                            FAX : [phone]
--
Marcell Stoer                                Internet : [e-mail]
Department of Chemistry
Molecular Beam Laser Spectrometry Laboratory    Voice : [phone]
University of Victoria                            FAX : [phone]

------------------------------

Date: 21 Jul 92 16:24:07 GMT
From: "Michael Bower Comm. " <hfsi!bower>
Subject: Astronomy Lab for MS Windows 3.X - BETA TESTERS NEEDED
Newsgroups: comp.windows.ms,comp.ibm.pc.misc,sci.astro,sci.space,sci.edu,comp.windows.ms.programmer,comp.binaries.ibm.pc.d

Me, three.  I kep
t getting bounced as well.



Name: Michael Bower
US Mail Address: 2037 Maleady Drive; Herndon, VA 22070
E-Mail Address: [e-mail]
Version of MS-Windows: 3.1
Version of MS-DOS: 5.0
CPU: 386SX-20
Math Coprocessor (not required): Cyrix 387SX-25
Memory: 8 Meg
Graphics Card: Paradise SVGA
Printer: Panasonic KX-P1124  (access to HP Ljet III at work where I will
                               also test)


Eric Bergman-Terrell
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 12:31:49 GMT
From: Nick Haines <[e-mail]>
Subject: does anyone know???
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Nitin Kale) writes:

   does anyone know how i can get in touch with Dr. Stephen Hawking ?
   email , ph. no., address ????

Yes, I do. I don't know if I should tell you his email address,
though. Look at it this way, he's a very busy man with a terminal
illness and great communication difficulties. Replying to anything you
send him would likely take him hours. I think his time is more
valuable than that.

The thought of him communicating by telephone is so tragic it's almost
funny.

Oh, I can give you this snail address, since I imagine it gets
processed by secretaries:

Dr S.W.Hawking
DAMTP
Mill Lane
Cambridge
England

-----------------------------------
Nick Haines [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 14:40:55 GMT
From: Christopher Neufeld <[e-mail]>
Subject: does anyone know???
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Nick Haines) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Nitin Kale) writes:
>
>   does anyone know how i can get in touch with Dr. Stephen Hawking ?
>   email , ph. no., address ????
>
>Yes, I do. I don't know if I should tell you his email address,
>though. Look at it this way, he's a very busy man with a terminal
>illness and great communication difficulties. Replying to anything you
>send him would likely take him hours. I think his time is more
>valuable than that.
>
   His graduate students answer his correspondance, possibly after
consulting with him for some of the details. Just a couple of months ago
somebody came up to me asking for a 'translation' (physics to English) of
the answer he got to a letter he sent to Stephen Hawking. The reply
clearly stated that it had been written by a grad student. The rest was
not so clear, but that was probably because I didn't know the original
question as phrased, and the fellow who showed me the letter didn't have
a copy of the letter he sent.

--
 Christopher Neufeld....Just a graduate student  | Talk sense to a fool
 [e-mail]    Ad astra  | and he calls you
 [e-mail]                       | foolish.
 "Don't edit reality for the sake of simplicity" |       - Euripides

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 10:24:38 -0400
From: Theodore Wadsworth <[e-mail]>
Subject: Facility Tours
Newsgroups: talk.politics.space,sci.space

Does anyone know the charges for tours of the various NASA facilities
(Huntsville Space Center, "Space Camp", ...)?

Please respond to sender.

------------------------------

Date: 21 Jul 92 15:36:00 GMT
From: Mary Shafer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Facility Tours
Newsgroups: talk.politics.space,sci.space

On 21 Jul 92 06:24:38 GMT, [e-mail] (Theodore Wadsworth) said:

T> Does anyone know the charges for tours of the various NASA facilities
T> (Huntsville Space Center, "Space Camp", ...)?

Dryden's tour is free, although a reservation is required.
--
Mary Shafer  DoD #0362 KotFR NASA Dryden Flight Research Facility, Edwards, CA
[e-mail]                    Of course I don't speak for NASA
 "A MiG at your six is better than no MiG at all."  Unknown US fighter pilot

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 16:10:12 GMT
From: Paul Robichaux <[e-mail]>
Subject: Facility Tours
Newsgroups: talk.politics.space,sci.space

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Theodore Wadsworth) writes:

>Does anyone know the charges for tours of the various NASA facilities
>(Huntsville Space Center, "Space Camp", ...)?

The US Space and Rocket Center (a commercial enterprise) operates
Space Camp; I don't know how much the various camps cost, but they do
have an 800 number.

The Space and Rocket Center also has a nifty museum, an IMAX theater,
and a _very_ good bus tour of Marshall Space Flight Center facilities.
$11.95 adults, ~$6 kids. 9am-5pm, 7 days a week, all year except
Christmas (they _are_ open on Easter!)

A happy and frequent visitor,
-Paul
--
Paul Robichaux, KD4JZG          | I shouldn't bitch / I shouldn't cry
[e-mail]   | I'd start a revolution but I don't have time.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 14:37:35 GMT
From: Hartmut Frommert <[e-mail]>
Subject: Galileo found intelligent life? (was Re: Whale killing ..)
Newsgroups: sci.space

[e-mail] (Ken Arromdee) writes:

[discussion of intelligence deleted]

>>(As I see, spacecraft Galileo found *NO*
>>evidence for the existence of intelligent life on the surface of Earth).

>Wrong.

I read it in a newspaper that Galileo found *NO* evidence ...
Since Ken complains, I ask the space audience:

*  Did Galileo find evidence for the existence of intelligent life on the
   surface of Earth during its fly-by ?

   (I could imagine city lights at night, or Chinese wall...)
--
 Hartmut Frommert, LS Dehnen, Physics, | E-Mail: <[e-mail]>
 Univ of Constance, P.O.Box 55 60,     |     or  <[e-mail]>
 D-W-7750 Constance, Germany  | + SAVE THE WHALES ! BOYCOTT NORWAY !        +
 Phone: [phone]   | + Whales R intelligent. Whale killers not.  +
+ Whale killing is murder. Eating whales is cannibalism. Eat whale killers. +

------------------------------

Date: 21 Jul 92 15:24:17 GMT
From: Pieter Kallemeyn <[e-mail]>
Subject: Galileo Update - 07/20/92
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Kevin W. Plaxco) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>
>>     Tomorrow, the turn to the warming attitude in preparation for the Dual
>>Drive Actuator (DDA) pulse is scheduled to begin at approximately 10:57PDT.
>>The first of the two Dual Drive Actuator pulses is scheduled at 12:46 PDT for
>>approximately a 2 second duration.  Tracking is scheduled over DSS-43.
>
>This, I presume, represents an attempt to free the HGA by using the LGA-2
>deployment motor to shake the S/C.  Presuming this is correct: How many
>pulses can be generated in 2 seconds? Is this just a test of the pulse
>proceedure, and therefore limited to one stow/deployment cycle?  And
>why is this being done at the warming attitude since the HGA is less tightly
>stuck when cold?
>
>-Kevin

The warming turn is for the benifit of the DDA motor itself, which works
better at higher temperatures.  As for the number of pulses, there will be
only one on/off cycle for this 2-second duration test.  Another 2-second
on/off cycle is planned a few days later after the DDA motors have had a chance
to warm.
--
Pieter Kallemeyn                     |   [e-mail]
Jet Propulsion Laboratory            |          - or -
California Institute of Technology   |   [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 15:18:36 GMT
From: Hartmut Frommert <[e-mail]>
Subject: Looking gif horse in mouth
Newsgroups: sci.space

[e-mail] writes:

[paraphrased:] How to get NASA GIF's on floppies ?

Best you ftp them from
   ames.arc.nasa.gov
   user: anonymous          (or ftp)
   pass: <your_userid@your_node>
   cd /pub/SPACE/GIF

to get them on your comp, from that you can copy to your floppy.

Hope this helps.
 Hartmut Frommert, LS Dehnen, Physics, | E-Mail: <[e-mail]>
 Univ of Constance, P.O.Box 55 60,     |     or  <[e-mail]>
 D-W-7750 Constance, Germany  | + SAVE THE WHALES ! BOYCOTT NORWAY !        +
 Phone: [phone]   | + Whales R intelligent. Whale killers not.  +
+ Whale killing is murder. Eating whales is cannibalism. Eat whale killers. +

------------------------------

Date: 21 Jul 92 13:50:10 GMT
From: "Frank J. Nagy:VAX Wizard&Loose Cannon" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Muon-catalyzed fusion
Newsgroups: sci.space

There was a question recently (I've lost the reference) as to what
exactly is muon-catalyzed fusion.

This effect has been observed directly (well, as directly as it can
be) in liquid hydrogen (and liquid deuterium?) bubble chambers with
stopping muons.  A muon is basically a heavy electron (with same
negative charge) and a stopping muon can replace the electron in
a hydrogen atom.  The resulting muonic atom is much smaller than
the normal electronic atom since the muon is much more massive
than the electon so its charge density envelope is much denser
around the nucleus.  This provides greater shielding of the positive
charge of the nucleus allowing the muonic atom to slip within the
electonic cloud of the other atom in the LH2/LD2 molecule (for
instance).  In fact, the muon does such a good job of neutralizing
the positive charge of the nucleus that the two nuclei get close
enough together for there to be a significant chance for them to
undergo a nuclear interact - ergo, fusion.

= Dr. Frank J. Nagy   "VAX Guru & Wizard, Loose Cannon"  {{Group Leader!}}
= Fermilab Computing Division/Distributed Computing Dept/Special Projects Grp
= HEPnet/SPAN: FNDCD::NAGY (43123::NAGY) or FNAL::NAGY (43009::NAGY)
= Internet: [e-mail]            = BitNet: NAGY@FNAL
= USnail: Fermilab POB 500 MS/234 Batavia, IL 60510

------------------------------

Date: 21 Jul 92 13:40:16 GMT
From: Rodney Sparapani <[e-mail]>
Subject: Need Testers for MS Windows Astronomy Program
Newsgroups: comp.windows.ms,comp.windows.ms.programmer,sci.astro,sci.space,sci.edu,comp.ibm.pc.misc

I know that I shouldn't post this to the list, but that mailer is OOO.

I would like to beta test astro lab.
Rodney Sparapani
5027 W. National Ave., #205
West Milwaukee, WI  53214

[e-mail]

CPU:  Intel 486/33 with math coprocessor
MEM:  4M
Graphics:  SVGA with 1M card
Printer:  Panasonic 1124
DOS:  MS-5.00
Windows:  3.1
--
DISCLAIMER:  If you think this disclaimer is offensive, illegal, immoral,
or otherwise politically incorrect, then I guess you shouldn't have read it.

------------------------------

Date: 21 Jul 92 12:01:32 GMT
From: Gary Coffman <ke4zv!gary>
Subject: No markets in space? (was Re: Chemical unit operations in space)
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Nick Szabo) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey) writes:
>
>>It's also true that no large increase in astronautical activity will
>>occur unless transportation from Earth decreases considerably.
>>As this happens, the penalty for bringing equipment or raw materials from
>>Earth will be lower.
>
>An otherwise fine post, but this statement is a popular misconception.
>The economics of space activity depend on both cost/lb. of transportation
>and value/lb. of the goods transported (eg comsats).  Value/lb. (eg
>telephone circuits) has been increasing at a rate several orders of
>magnitude higher than the decrease in cost/lb.  If that trend continues
>or accelerates, we will be processing materials in space long before
>launch cost/lb. comes down significantly.
>
>Of course, those who insist on thinking _only_ in terms of cost/lb.
>will flame me for daring to project a trend.

The flame is for *mis*interpreting a trend. Leaving aside the fact that
there is excess transponder capacity currently in orbit, and the fact
that services are moving back to terrestrial fiber links, the key reason
communications satellites have been successful is that their cost per
pound has been *ZERO* for their product. Information is massless. Using
comsats to project space industrialization trends is bogus because the
product of space industrialization is not massless. The cost per pound
of launching radio waves into space is infinitely small, though the
one time capital cost of the equipment to do so is not.

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 10:02:03 GMT
From: Stefan Hartmann <[e-mail]>
Subject: Phobos2-probe UFO pic-pro and contra
Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro,alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal

Hi,
I just have posted the mysterious phobos2-probe UFO-pic  as a GIF-pic
called phobufo.gif  in the newsgroup:
alt.binaries.pictures.misc

I was asked in private email to do so, cause many people don't yet
have any JPEG viewers !

Okay, but now the Pro and Contra:

I enclose here to emails, which say it is only a particle hit or a
CCD-chip error.

Can anybody verify this ?

Here comes the email I received:


Date: Mon, 20 Jul 92 18:25:33 HST
From: [e-mail] (Kimo Kanaka De'ane)
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: phobufo.jpg, part 1/1 Phobos2-probe-UFO-pic
Newsgroups: alt.binaries.pictures.erotica
In-Reply-To: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Institute for Astronomy, Hawaii
Cc:
Status: RO

    Aloha.
    As an infrared astronomer, I am certain that the streak in this
picture is a bad column from the infrared array. Those chips are notorious
for having rows of dead pixels. I saw shapes like this one on both the
array at the University of Wyoming IR Observatory and here at UH, though
ours is a cutting-edge device, and has slightly better cosmetics. I put
no faith whatsoever in the UFO idea.
    Again, I've used these devices extensively, and my job is determining
what kind of structure one can believable extract from imaging electronics.
This is just an instrumental flaw.

    N.B. CCDs are used in the Optical bandpass, roughly the same light
visible with the eye. IR-arrays are the same *basic* structure, with important
differences in detail, and are about 5-8 years behind CCDs in terms of size
and performance. It's a hard waveband to work in, but one chock full of
scientific merit.

    Clear skies,
        Kimo


Date: Mon, 20 Jul 92 19:13:32 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Tarl Neustaedter)
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail]
In-Reply-To: Stefan Hartmann's message of Mon, 20 Jul 92 12:32:43 MEST <[e-mail]>
Subject: phobufo.jpg, part 1/1 Phobos2-probe-UFO-pic
Status: RO

> Hmm,
> interesting idea, but tell me, won't there be visible only a little
> white pixel and not this long big line ?

If you happen to get a charged particle hitting the edge of the detector
parallel to the plane, it will travel through a number of cells, triggering
them. Under some conditions, the cascade of secondary particles can make the
line much wider than a single pixel.

> What about all the other photos that were taken ? Why are over there
> no white lines or spots ?

The effect is temporary, so you won't get the same damage in all images.
If you question is why none of the other pictures show any damage, there
are two answers:
   a) Do you have all of the raw data for all the images? Knowing how
      glavkosmos works (even post-perestroika), you don't. It's common
      practice to process images removing defects before you release
      them, and to simply discard images that are too badly damaged.
   b) Have you heard of the term "random"?

> Would a CCD chip camera for space mission not made safe for this
> charged particle hits ? If not, You would see every time only white
> spots !

No.
  a) It takes miles of insulation to defend against relativistic charged
     particles. There is no way to make a CCD "safe" against cosmic rays.
  b) They aren't common enough to zap all your images. Most images won't
     have any cosmic ray hits, and those that do will probably be at a
     sharper angle than this, and thus a smaller hit.
  c) My comment about cosmic rays was simply one of the defects that could
     be the cause; I'd have to have the raw data and specifications on the
     imaging and transmission hardware before I could comment on the likely
     candidates.

I've observed this discussion before, and I don't care to carry it on.
It is the provenance of conspiracy theorists and ufo true-believers, not
anyone who has ever worked with CCDs or space equipment. The only reason
I commented is because after posting it to sci.astro, you posted it to an
erotica group, which was inappropriate.

> Rethink about it !

Give me a break.
    Tarl



So, what do You all say about this ?

Best regards Stefan Hartmann.
email to: [e-mail]


--

*************************************************************
*  Stefan Hartmann       This is how to contact me:         *
*  EMAIL: [e-mail]                          *
*  Phone : ++ 49 30 344 23 66      FAX : ++ 49 30 344 92 79 *
*************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 15:44:39 GMT
From: Ithlial the Archer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Phobos2-probe UFO pic-pro and contra
Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro,alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal

Everything stated in the original post is a common occurence even in
ground based CCDs.  Especially the cosmic ray hits, which become quite
frequent on long esposures, like those used for extragalactic objects.
On observing runs I've been on I've seen CR hits so energetic they
saturate an entire column and possibly an adjacent one and leave residual
charge on subsequent read-outs of the chip (somewhat like an after image
that people get when they look at something very bright.)  Our method of
dealing with cosmic ray hits is to take at least three short exposures
in place of the one long one and then median them.  This works quite
well since even small chips are 512 by 512 (columns by pixels) so the
chance of having even the same column hit is very small especially
if you make your exposure time shorter.

On the one of the chips at our observatory (Capilla Peak, in the Manzanos
mtns in NM) we saw what we thought to be a comet.  We searched for the
object on subsequent nights, since we need at least 3 observations
to really nail down the orbit et cetera.  We could not locate the object.
Then the 'object' appeared again at a far removed point in the sky.
A quick back of the envelope calculation show that if the 'comet'
was even at a very close range then its velocity was an order of
magnitude above solar system escape velicity and few times above
galactic escape velocity.  The culprit was a fairly large defect on the
chip.

I think this story serves to show that defects and CR hits can produce
a wide variety of effects on CCDs.  We could have just as easily said
that the effect was and exhaust plume of a spaceship, but when we found
out chip was acting silly the end result was the same:  we gotta buy
a new chip.

See ya,

Ithlial


My opinions, mine, mine, mine!

To me, boxing is like ballet, except there's no music, no choreography,
and the dancers hit eachother.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 15:31:14 GMT
From: Tom Rataski <[e-mail]>
Subject: Testers for Astronomy  Lab:  NEW E-MAIL ADDRESS!!!
Newsgroups: comp.windows.ms,comp.windows.ms.programmer,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc,sci.astro,sci.space,sci.edu

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Eric Bergman-Terrell) writes:

*************************************************************************
* Sorry about the unreliable e-mail address.  I have a new one that     *
* should work: uunet!edoc9!erict                                        *
*************************************************************************

Sorry for posting this... The new address also bounces with user unknown.

Name:        Tom Rataski
US Mail Address: 495 Winfield Way, Akron, Ohio 44303
E-Mail Address: [e-mail]
Version of MS-Windows: V3.1
Version of MS-DOS: V5.0
CPU:    80486/25
Math Coprocessor (not required):
Memory: 8mb
Graphics Card: SVGA
Printer: various... dot matrix to ps

--

Tom Rataski                            [e-mail]
Digital Equipment Corporation
3500 Massillon Rd. Suite 100           twisted pair: [phone]
Uniontown, Ohio 44685   USA    <----<<< Uniontown = Akron/Canton, Ohio
"I have problems enough speaking for myself let alone my employer"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 17:09:22 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: U.S. Black Programs

Since last January, I try to get more information about a strange
aircraft (probably an airship) which has been seen near U.S. Air Force
bases in California and/or Nevada. The point is that this craft looks
like the "UFO(s)" which thousands Belgian (and a few Dutch) citizens
claim to have seen since November 1989. The description of this U.S.
secret craft can be found in Popular Mechanics (not an UFO review!),
December 1991, in the article "America's New Secret Aircraft":
''[...]
  The big wing.
  Meanwhile, several Antelope Valley residents say they've seen a
  craft that simply strains credulity.
    According to reports over the past two years, a vast black flying
  wing, estimated at between 600 and 800 ft. in width, has passed
  silently over city streets, empty desert and rural freeways. The
  craft moved so slowly one observer said he could jog along with it.
  A pattern of seemingly random white lights on the vehicle's black
  underside provided "constellation camouflage" against the starry
  sky. Observers who followed the craft long enough detailed unlikely
  maneuvers in which the vehicle stopped, rotated in place and
  hovered vertically, presenting a thin trailing edge to the ground.
    Although such sightings encourage those who link the military
  with unearthly technology, a mammoth, quiet flying wing may have
  a conventional explanation: It could be a lighter-than-air craft
  pushed by slow-turning propellers. Certainly, such a vehicle could
  elude Doppler radar by slowing to a crawl. Alternatively, the fact
  that the craft holds station vertically suggests that it might
  serve as a huge reflector for a bistatic radar system. Other
  possible missions include troop delivery or covert surveillance.
  [...]''
I could not find any information about this aircraft in Aviation Week
& Space Technology, nor in Aerospace America. Has anybody on this list
more precise information about this aircraft-which-looks-like-an-UFO ?
If no, on what list may I find something ?

J. Pharabod

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 14:57:28 GMT
From: Hartmut Frommert <[e-mail]>
Subject: Whale killing for "science" -- so for what?
Newsgroups: sci.space

A side remark on sci.space, as the discussion swept over from sci.misc:
(Prof. Carl Sagan said similar things in COSMOS)

I assume that many of the readers here are deeply interested in SETI,
extra-terrestrial life (in particular, intelligent), etc.. How can one hope
that there may be *any* useful (and peaceful) contact with ETI's if we
are not even able to peaceful co-existence with the other TI's (the whales) ?

Please, no flames here. The discussion should stay on sci.misc.
--
 Hartmut Frommert, LS Dehnen, Physics, | E-Mail: <[e-mail]>
 Univ of Constance, P.O.Box 55 60,     |     or  <[e-mail]>
 D-W-7750 Constance, Germany  | + SAVE THE WHALES ! BOYCOTT NORWAY !        +
 Phone: [phone]   | + Whales R intelligent. Whale killers not.  +
+ Whale killing is murder. Eating whales is cannibalism. Eat whale killers. +

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 14:50:39 GMT
From: Hartmut Frommert <[e-mail]>
Subject: Whale killing for "science" -- so for what?
Newsgroups: sci.misc,sci.space

[e-mail] (Ken Arromdee) writes:

>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Hartmut Frommert) writes:
>>Contributions to these magazines are usually written by serious scientists.
>>So having a language, well-developed social behavior, etc. are not
>>manifestations of intelligence.

>Communicating with one another is not a language, and reacting to the actions
>of one another is not "social behavior" in the sense that humans have social
>behavior.  Otherwise, computers and ants are intelligent.

Please, leave this discussion on sci.misc for the future.

As a response to your statement I mention that I only listed few examples
for the manifestation of the intelligence of whales. As was stated on
sci.misc in the meantime, even the weight ratio brain/body is similar to
human (!) for dolphins and orcas.

FYI: The language of whales is based on sound (I think infra sound) and in
     the case of dolphins sufficiently developed so that they can communicate
     even without sight contact, and over larger distances. Covering the eyes
     of one dolphin and giving optical signals to a second is communicated to
     the first so that s/hecan react appropriately. Also think of the
     "songs of the whales" -- some people compare it to culture/art.

Everybody who wants may read one of the books on the social behavior of
whales, so that I don't give details here.

[remark on Galileo deleted]

Hope this clears some facts.
--
 Hartmut Frommert, LS Dehnen, Physics, | E-Mail: <[e-mail]>
 Univ of Constance, P.O.Box 55 60,     |     or  <[e-mail]>
 D-W-7750 Constance, Germany  | + SAVE THE WHALES ! BOYCOTT NORWAY !        +
 Phone: [phone]   | + Whales R intelligent. Whale killers not.  +
+ Whale killing is murder. Eating whales is cannibalism. Eat whale killers. +

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End of Space Digest Volume 15 : Issue 021
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